<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div align="center" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-align: left;"><span style="background-color: transparent;">Obrigado Benilton,</span></div><div align="center" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-align: left;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div align="center" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-align: left;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"> Mas o modelo parece estar correto, estou seguindo a metodologia empregada por Farhad et al. 2011 pag 2., Equação 1. (Foraging behavior of Praon Volucre .... doi: 10.1155/2011/868546).</span></div><div align="center" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-align: left;"><span
style="background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div align="center" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-align: left;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"> Achei um erro no meu CMR que ficaria:</span></div><div align="center" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-align: left;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal;"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> #</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 13px;">> ###################################################################################################</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> #Regressão logística entre a proporção de herbivoros predados e a densidade de herbivoros oferecidos</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> #</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> pred<-c(1,2,2,3,1,4,2,3,2,3,5,6,5,5,3,7,7,6,2</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">+ ,3,15,12,14,12,11,11,11,13,13,13,18,14,27,26</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">+ ,17,18,20,22,10,15,29,30,36,40,23,50,30,40,29,52)##Número de herbívoros predados</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> dens<-sort(rep(2^(2:6),10))#### Densidade de herbivoros oferecidos</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> ##</span></div><div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> ##Regressão pred/dens = exp(P0+P1*N+P2*N^2+P3*N3)/1+ exp(P0+P1*N+P2*N^2+P3*N3)</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> p.model1<-glm(pred/dens~dens+I(dens^2)+I(dens^3),family="binomial")</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Mensagens de aviso perdidas:</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
13px;">In eval(expr, envir, enclos) : #sucessos não-inteiro em um glm binomial!</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> summary(p.model1)</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Call:</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">glm(formula = pred/dens ~ dens + I(dens^2) +
I(dens^3), family = "binomial")</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Deviance Residuals: </span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> Min 1Q Median 3Q Max </span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial,
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">-0.85240 -0.17292 -0.05812 0.19453 1.10008 </span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Coefficients:</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> Estimate Std. Error z value Pr(>|z|)</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span
style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">(Intercept) -5.744e-01 1.231e+00 -0.467 0.641</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">dens 2.238e-01 2.244e-01 0.997 0.319</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">I(dens^2) -8.846e-03 9.018e-03 -0.981 0.327</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">I(dens^3) 8.671e-05 9.154e-05 0.947
0.344</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">(Dispersion parameter for binomial family taken to be 1)</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> Null deviance: 8.1347 on 49 degrees of
freedom</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Residual deviance: 6.8751 on 46 degrees of freedom</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">AIC: 67.087</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Number of Fisher Scoring iterations: 4</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> #</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal;">Mas é exatamente o seu exemplo que eu procurava, pois eu queria os coeficientes de P0, P1, P2 e P3, seguindo sua ajuda:</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">>
naoPred<-dens-pred</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> p.model2<-glm(cbind(pred, naoPred)~poly(dens, 3, raw=TRUE), family='binomial')</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> summary(p.model2)</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Call:</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">glm(formula = cbind(pred, naoPred) ~ poly(dens, 3, raw = TRUE), </span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> family = "binomial")</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 13px;">Deviance Residuals: </span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> Min 1Q Median 3Q Max </span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">-3.2393 -0.9997 -0.0732 0.9515 4.2567 </span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Coefficients:</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> Estimate Std. Error z value Pr(>|z|) </span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">(Intercept)
-8.399e-01 4.949e-01 -1.697 0.089672 . </span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">poly(dens, 3, raw = TRUE)1 2.688e-01 7.444e-02 3.611 0.000305 ***</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">poly(dens, 3, raw = TRUE)2 -1.055e-02 2.755e-03 -3.828 0.000129 ***</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">poly(dens, 3, raw = TRUE)3 1.033e-04 2.681e-05 3.853 0.000117 ***</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">---</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Signif. codes: 0 ‘***’ 0.001 ‘**’ 0.01 ‘*’ 0.05 ‘.’ 0.1 ‘ ’ 1 </span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial,
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">(Dispersion parameter for binomial family taken to be 1)</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> Null deviance: 148.29 on 49 degrees of freedom</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Residual deviance: 121.77 on 46 degrees of freedom</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">AIC: 280.61</span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Number of Fisher Scoring iterations: 4</span></div><div><span
style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">> #</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal;">Obrigado pelas dicas e correções,</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-style:
normal;">Alexandre</div></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal;"><br></div></div> <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">De:</span></b> Benilton Carvalho <beniltoncarvalho@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Para:</span></b> r-br <r-br@listas.c3sl.ufpr.br>; Alexandre Santos <alexandresantosbr@yahoo.com.br> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Enviadas:</span></b> Terça-feira, 20 de Novembro de 2012 16:30<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Assunto:</span></b> Re: [R-br] Dúvida em summary em
regressão logística<br> </font> </div> <br><div id="yiv558931540"><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra">Seu exemplo nao e' reproduzivel e seu modelo nao esta' correto.</div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra">Consulte seu estatistico local para esclarecimentos mais detalhados.</div>
<div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra">Uma regressao logistica modela a probabilidade de sucesso dado um conjunto de covariaveis. No seu caso, "sucesso" (para o predador) parece ser o herbivoro ser predado.</div>
<div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra">Dito isso, se "naoPred" fosse o numero de herbivoros que nao foram predados, a especificacao do seu modelo seria</div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra"><br></div>
<div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra">glm(cbind(pred, naoPred)~poly(dens, 3, raw=TRUE), family='binomial')</div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra">Se vc usar a representacao na escala probalistica (note que faltam uns parenteses na sua representacao):</div>
<div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra">Prob(Sucesso) = exp(P0+P1*N+P2*N^2+P3*N^3)/(1+exp(P0+P1*N+P2*N^2+P3*N^3))</div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra">o resultado do summary (os coeficiences) mostrado(s) representa(m) respectivamente P0, P1, P2 e P3.</div>
<div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra">b</div><div class="yiv558931540gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="yiv558931540gmail_quote">2012/11/20 Alexandre Santos <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:alexandresantosbr@yahoo.com.br" target="_blank" href="mailto:alexandresantosbr@yahoo.com.br">alexandresantosbr@yahoo.com.br</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="yiv558931540gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div align="center"><div style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:transparent;">Boa tarde Pessoal,</span></div><div style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:transparent;"> Estou ajustando uma regressão logística e me deparei com a seguinte dúvida:</span></div>
<div style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:transparent;"> </span></div><div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">###################################################################################################</font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">#Regressão logística entre a proporção de herbívoros predados e a densidade
de herbívoros oferecidos</font></div><div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">#</font></div><div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">pred<-c(1,2,2,3,1,4,2,3,2,3,5,6,5,5,3,7,7,6,2</font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">,3,15,12,14,12,11,11,11,13,13,13,18,14,27,26</font></div><div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">,17,18,20,22,10,15,29,30,36,40,23,50,30,40,29,52)##Número de herbívoros predados</font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">dens<-sort(rep(2^(2:6),10))#### Densidade de herbivoros oferecidos</font></div><div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">##</font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">##Regressão
pred/dens = exp(P0+P1*N+P2*N^2+P3*N3)/1+ exp(P0+P1*N+P2*N^2+P3*N3)</font></div><div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">p.model1<-glm(pred/par~dens+I(dens^2)+I(dens^3),family="binomial")</font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">summary(p.model1)</font></div><div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">#</font></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-size: 13px; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">
<font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-size: 13px; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div><div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Minha dúvida é se o coeficiente linear que aparece no summary esta transformado em exp(x)/1+exp(x)</font></div><div style="">
<font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">ou trata-se do valor sem transformação?</font></div><div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Obrigado,</font></div>
<span class="yiv558931540"><font color="#888888"><div style="font-style: normal; font-size: 13px; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-size: 13px; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><pre>--
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Alexandre dos Santos
Proteção Florestal
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